[Thursday] Steam Up wrap up - Pacemaker issue

Tue Oct 4 18:00:15 MDT 2022

Dave,

Thank you for the info as to what happened there in the wireless building.
I'm glad there was an exchange and an acknowledgement of the danger.  I
think we can all agree that safety needs to be the first priority.  As for
the rest of the questions, I think you and Len have both answered them.
The situations are simply too varied to have any good blanket answers.  I
do think the Massie transmitter and the spark gap demo downstairs in Massie
present similar danger.  Perhaps we could measure the emf at a
certain range, just to have some idea of how they compare.  I don't imagine
plexiglass presents any barrier at all.  If we find that we can detect the
EMF on opposite floors of the Massie station, I think we should install a
warning light on the opposite floor of when the power supplies are powered
on.  We should review our procedures as well to ensure the greatest
possible safety for all.

Thanks,
Randy

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:53 PM David Caldwell via Thursday <
thursday at newsm.org> wrote:

> Besides pacemakers there are now lots of other implanted medical devices
> that might be affected. I know some of them can be controlled with a
> magnet, so they are affected by magnetic fields. Some of them stimulate
> nerves, some release drugs, ... It's not clear that one could ever keep up
> with testing for all the possible devices that might present problems.
> Probably best to have general warning signs about implanted medical
> devices, and have the demonstrator also repeat the warning.
>
> Or do the demos in a Faraday cage, which would add another cool thing to
> the demo.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:40 PM Len Arzoomanian via Thursday <
> thursday at newsm.org> wrote:
>
>> I have a pacemaker and have never been affected by any of the devices
>> mentioned, even if I was running them. I believe it depends on the
>> pacemaker.
>>
>> The lead apron may not work as the pacemaker is usually near the left
>> shoulder and may not cover it.
>>
>> Incidentally when I get my pacemaker checked they tell me if there have
>> been any “incidents” and I have had none ever.
>>
>> That being said the safe bet is to NOT run any of these devices if
>> someone acknowledges they have a pacemaker.
>>
>> Len
>>
>> Sent using the mobile mail app
>>
>> On 10/4/22 at 3:26 PM, David Crowell via Thursday wrote:
>>
>> From: "David Crowell via Thursday" <thursday at newsm.org>
>> Date: October 4, 2022
>> To: "Thursday Group" <thursday at newsm.org>,
>> "Randall Snow" <pleaseleaveamessage4me at gmail.com>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Thursday] Steam Up wrap up - Pacemaker issue
>> Randy,
>>
>> I've been thinking about the rotary spark gap transmitter demonstrator.
>>
>> As usual, I asked if anybody had a Pacemaker. When the gentleman at
>> Steam-up responded he had one, I told the people I couldn't run it. The man
>> said he would move away and walked part way towards the front of the
>> building and he said it was okay. I said are you sure and he said yes. I
>> hit the key a couple of times and he said he felt it, but he was okay. I
>> stopped the demo.
>>
>> A few thoughts:
>> 1. Are there any guide lines as to a safe distance? Is the radiation
>> strong enough to go through walls?
>> 2. Should the power of the spark gap transmitter be decreased? Would this
>> make any difference?
>> 3. Would it help if the spark gap transmitter were enclosed in a one
>> inch (or more) thick Plexiglas box?
>> 4. Is there a way we can demonstrate the Tesla coil without using the
>> rotary spark gap or is the energy from the
>>    Tesla coil itself still a problem? Wikipedia talks about using a solid
>> state device instead of a spark gap.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil#Primary_switching
>>
>> 5. Are Pacemakers affected by our Ham Radio transmitter?
>> 6. What about the Massie spark transmitter? How safe is that as far as a
>> Pacemaker is concerned? Is the radiation  strong enough to affect people
>> downstairs or even outside?
>> 7. When the telegraph sounder in the Wireless building is operated, it is
>> heard in the AK breadboard radio in the other room! I wonder if this can be
>> a problem for a Pacemaker that is nearby?
>>
>> Other thoughts:
>> 1. When asking if anyone has a Pacemaker, we need to check the other isle
>> by the display cases too.
>> 2. Maybe we can get a lead apron (like at the dentist office) for a
>> person to wear.
>> 3. To test any of these ideas, a Field Strength Meter or a volunteer with
>> a Pacemaker might be needed!
>> 4. At least one small child went under the rope in front of the displays.
>> The parent was slow to react.
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cardiac_pacemaker#Magnetic_fields,_MRIs,_and_other_lifestyle_issues
>>
>> Safety must be our highest priority.
>> If anyone with a Pacemaker is inside the building, for now just don't
>> operate the transmitter.
>>
>> David Crowell
>> 10/04/2022
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 11:54:52 PM EDT, Randall Snow via
>> Thursday <thursday at newsm.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I want to thank everyone who has contributed to another successful Yankee
>> Steam Up this year. Beyond just the day today, that was of course a bit
>> challenging, I appreciate all the dedication and time through the last
>> month of prep. Our progress is being noticed. I heard numerous comments
>> about the significant work that has taken place in the last few years and
>> nothing but positivity about it all. For a unpredictable dreary day, I
>> don't think we could have asked for a better turnout or more positivity.
>> Thank you all for your help.
>>
>> In the way of numbers, we counted about 375 visitors. Given our
>> confinement to covered spaces it still felt busy. Normal numbers would be
>> at least twice that and I expected 3x that for the day. Food sales were
>> strong, hitting 2/3 of the goals on many things and nearly selling out of
>> some too. Again, great considering the day.
>>
>> I hope it was a fun day for all of you as well. If there are any stories
>> of particularly good or bad moments, or anything that was noted as needing
>> improvement, please let me know.
>>
>> One particularly concerning item came up with a gentleman with a
>> pacemaker who was inside the wireless building during a demonstration of
>> the rotary spark gap transmitter. He overlooked the signs and thought
>> nothing of it until he started feeling the effects. We need to do something
>> more for safety around this circumstance.
>>
>> Again, thank you all and please share any thoughts from the day.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
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-- 
Randy Snow

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